A Christian preacher who spreads his message in the nightclub precinct every Friday night could be facing an almighty battle with the police.
He was told to move on for breaching the peace.
But the 21 year old says he won’t be silenced and has vowed to return to the strip.
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Operation 513, the group these people are from, also frequent the Queen St Mall in Brisbane. Their message is not one of love and kindness: it is a fundamentalist rant inflused with very hard line Calvinist views. Most of the time the preachers are verbally attacking passers by rebuking them with claims that everyone “deserves Hell”; to look at a person other than your spouse with “lust” is to commit adultery; to hate someone is to commit “murder of the heart”. They are more interested in passing judgement than promoting love.
Not to mention the factually erroneous statements they make about science and history…
See it yourself:http://www.youtube.com/user/Operation513#p/u/8/ubhlYKUG3jk
This group is also known to me and their message is unsavoury to some. It is not suprising that the atheists of australia find them particularly annoying. The comment made by “concerned atheist” above smacks of prejudice and bigotry especially when you view the Operation 513 website which explains the biblical basis for their message.
It is very true that they do not flinch from identifying with the words of Jesus that all people are sinful and deserve hell for their rebelion against God. That said the burden of their message is that there is healing and life available in Jesus Christ (through repentance and faith in His name).
They are a group that emphasises the need for faith in the words of God, but they are also constantly supplying rational support for the faith they profess. For those interested have a look at the Operation 513 apollogetics blog which has many interesting articles by expert commentators.
This group is a force for good on the streets of Brisbane and the Gold Coast as the council officers of Brisbane and police of Brisbane and the GC have attested to over the years. There are many others that have commented on their good work. As a group of volenteers they should be commended for their selfless work.
“Concerned Christian” I know you have a vested interest in defending the message of your associates at Operation 513 (yes, it is kind of clear who i am talking to, James). However, that is no reason to make false comments about the alleged merits of their group or to attack my legitimate concerns.
I will stress that this is not a matter of censuring the “Christian message” but rather a question of what kind of behavior is appropriate at public venues. People have every right to take issue with a man on a soapbox making judgments about their lifestyle and breaching the peace.
Many beliefs have been based on the Bible, some of them profound and some of them attrocious. It is you that shows abject bigotry in assuming that the “Biblical basis” of Operation 513 should reduce the unsavory character of their fundamentalist ideals.
The suggestion that “they are also constantly supplying rational support for the faith they profess” is a complete misrepresentation. Ryan and Co. may like to employ philosophical jargon and quote ver batum the arguments of William Lane Craig but they do so in a completely one sided fashion, portraying logically dubious arguments as evidence of God.
I don’t think he should be stopped. He definately has a right to free speech. I have heard parties go on until three in the morning in suburbia and the police do fuckall despite constant compliants via the telephone. I’ve seen people getting their heads punched in at the mall. The cops are useless. They can only catch someone if the offender turns up in the same place, at the same time every week.
Of course, the rantings and ravings of a christian are enough to drive any sane and logical person around the bend, but he deserves his right to free speech, or else nobody does. Besides, if he goes down, so should the atheists standing around arguing with him. They were just as loud.
I am not James, but I know who you and your group are. The pot calls the kettle black when it comes to your current comments about vested interests! You as an evangelistic atheist have a clearly vested interest in promulgating your world view.
Christians of course are going to take exception to a false representation of their views as fanatical and hate/judgement filled. Operation 513 call people to faith in Jesus and to A LIFE OF LOVING SERVICE TO OTHERS – you and other atheists love to skip this bit when you claim they and Christians like them are all about judgement. The loving work of Christians around the world is hard to miss unless you are completely and deliberately blind to it. For example how many not for profit welfare groups run largely by volenteers doing social good have atheists started based on clear atheistic ideals? Now compare that to the literally thousands started/run/based in the Christian worldview. Your comments are utterly unfounded and false.
You commented people have a right to take issue with someone preaching and making judgements (breaching the peace? hardly especially when there are no local laws that have been broken). How about people who come out as a group to get drunk and then shout abuse and vilify that same preacher? Would this be a problem? Of course not if they are an atheist and have just cause because it is a Christian preacher! Frankly your own activities make you a hypocrite.
Lastly and finally you have commented that Operation 513 do not supply a rational support for their position. Quoting experts in the fields of science, history, philosophy, archeaology etc is accepted accademic argumentation style. When these experts speak in a unified voice in support of a position giving evidences and logical proofs it provides a strong witness to the support of a position. As for supplying a balanced perspective, that would be a laughable comment if it were not so sad… any who are interested in seeing what an imbalanced perspective looks like have a read of the aptly named “Bollocks Log” by concerned atheist.
http://www.meetup.com/BrisbaneAtheists/messages/boards/thread/9266687
There is little point in continuing this discussion beyond this, I am sure you will have a last word to say, feel free but I wont be replying.
As a final comment from me on the story at hand. May God bless the work of Operation 513 (www.operation513.com and http://www.operation513.blogspot.com) and may He give them favour with the police in this matter. Good on you guys for your bravery and commitment to the truth, count this small voice as someone with you in your work. I will be praying for you all, especially you Ryan.
Not James? My apologies, you sounded like him…now you sound a bit like Dave.
“evangelistic atheist” would be a contradiction in terms, my friend. All I care to do is call out those who make false claims about history, science, or hide behind the pleasant, congenial image of non-fundamentalist religion. Saying that evangelism is a “service to others” implies it has quantifiable benefits. I’d ask you to list them but you have already decided to depart…
“Quoting experts in the fields of science, history, philosophy, archaeology etc is accepted academic argumentation style.”
Yes, but misquoting or selectively quoting them is not. Furthermore, it would have been nice if you mentioned some of those experts. (NB: I rewrote the quote so words are spelt correctly this time)
“When these experts speak in a unified voice in support of a position giving evidences and logical proofs it provides a strong witness to the support of a position”
Just a shame they don’t support your views. Otherwise this point may be of relevance. Actually, it is quite relevant: as a searing indictment of how you reject the academy and informed opinions of intellectuals and experts alike unless they happen to coincidentally back your personal beliefs.
To see just how far a member of op 513 will go to distort the facts take a look at this thread where David Gee proposes to have evidence that the soul exists:
http://www.meetup.com/BrisbaneAtheists/messages/boards/thread/8804780